that you did not consider him to be a man of integrity.
Bell paused for several seconds before saying: ‘My answer to that is that I do believe him to be a man of integrity. I also believe I needed a contemporaneous, accurate account and … the permanent secretary had to act to [the wishes of] his current minister, who may or may not want information released.’
***********
The interview with Bell had been recorded on the afternoon of Wednesday, 14 December and clips from it were trailed on Nolan’s radio show the following morning. It was clear that Bell had spoken out in a way which was sufficiently significant for the BBC to immediately bring it to air, inserting it into the schedule so late that it did not even feature in that morning’s newspaper TV listings. The DUP top brass consulted David Gordon, who as Executive Press Secretary was just three months into his job as Stormont’s top spin doctor.
As a former editor of The Nolan Show and one of Northern Ireland’s sharpest journalistic minds, he could see the scale of the unfolding crisis. Knowing Nolan inside out, Gordon had a cunning plan for how to manage the growing mess. That afternoon he phoned Buckler – who was covering the story for the News At Ten – and asked him if he was to interview Foster could he guarantee that the interview would also be played as part of the special programme in which Bell was speaking out. It was a shrewd move, which attempted to not only save Foster from Nolan’s aggressive interview style but also potentially split the BBC team by offering the major opportunity to one of Nolan’s closest friends. But when Buckler relayed the call to Nolan and Carragher it was Carragher who – despite her years of clashes with Nolan – ruled out the idea, saying firmly that Stormont would not be dictating who could conduct a BBC interview.
Having attempted to circumvent Nolan, the DUP now accepted that it was better for Foster to face his questions rather than allow Bell’s allegations to go out unchallenged. The news was relayed to the BBC at about 5.30pm, with the interview scheduled for 8pm – a rapid turnaround for such a major broadcast – and a satellite truck was despatched to the Stormont Estate.
During the negotiations about whether to do the interview, Foster had spent that day in Stormont Castle being briefed by Johnston and Bullick. McCormick was also present in the baronial castle which served as the Office of the First Minister and deputy First Minister. McCormick’s DUP minister had asked him to personally attest to the accuracy of a fact sheet which was being drawn up for the BBC.
Although Nolan was Stormont’s most feared journalistic inquisitor, the BBC personality had a reputation for being somewhat chaotic, and he was late arriving at Stormont for the interview with Foster. As the DUP and civil servants waited for the BBC crew to arrive, someone produced fish suppers which they ate while making final preparations for what would be a career-defining moment for Foster.
It was after 8pm – just over two and a half hours before the Bell interview was to be aired – when the presenter finally arrived at the castle’s security barrier. With him was a senior BBC editor, Kevin Kelly, and producer, David Thompson, as well as the technical team. At the front door of the castle, they were met by Gordon.
As they walked down a corridor in the castle, one of the journalists saw a group of elderly men in a dimly lit room. It appeared to him that they were praying.
As equipment was set up in the First Minister’s ground floor office, the atmosphere was frosty. The delay in Nolan’s arrival meant that McCormick had just 30 seconds to quickly speak to him as he passed through the castle entrance. A pale McCormick, who was described by one of those present as having seemed ‘petrified’, was asked to confirm that an RHI fact sheet was accurate. ‘Yes, I can confirm that,’ he said. Having been kept waiting by the DUP so that he would have a conversation with Nolan, the mandarin later recalled how he was ‘very frustrated’ that he had only seconds to converse with him and as a result he left the castle immediately to go home. That small detail would become significant much later.
But despite the fact that Nolan had been late, Foster now took her time in appearing. Nolan sat and waited as the clock ticked down on what he knew was already a tight timetable until the interview aired. When Foster did arrive, she just said: ‘Stephen. You have been a busy boy’, and sat down. As her microphone was fitted and technicians checked the lighting and sound, the First Minister said nothing to Nolan and kept her head to the side, choosing not to look at the broadcaster.
Unseen by viewers at home, Foster’s two key spads, as well as Gordon and DUP Press Officer Clive McFarland, had positioned themselves at the back of the room in Nolan’s eyeline. But, just minutes into the exchange, it was Foster who was visibly uncomfortable, breathing heavily and speaking over the interviewer’s questions. With cables running out of the castle to a satellite truck, footage of the interview was being viewed live in the BBC newsroom in central Belfast where Buckler was communicating directly to Nolan via an earpiece.
Foster presented a simple version of events in which officials had failed to ever raise problems with the scheme during her tenure and she had made no mistakes. As Nolan probed her about the fact that on her watch the scheme was launched without cost controls and then a proposal to put in cost controls was abandoned, Foster facetiously said: ‘Yes, Stephen, so I’m supposed to have a crystal ball in relation to these issues?’
Nolan went on to ask her: ‘Do you know why there were these delays [in introducing cost controls], then?’ Foster shot back: ‘I’ve no idea.’ An incredulous Nolan said: ‘You haven’t asked?’ Laughing nervously as she replied, Foster said: ‘No, that’s a matter for Jonathan. Why would I ask? I was Finance Minister at the time.’ Pressed on how she could not have enquired, given the scale of the overspend, Foster pinned the blame on her colleague, saying: ‘I am bemused as to why he would leave it open for such a period of time.’
Under acute pressure from the interviewer, Foster was asked: ‘So let me get this right – we are hearing now of people who have been putting boilers into sheds and blasting heat into the sky. We know that these delays were a factor. And as our First Minister you still haven’t asked what the delays were about. You still haven’t briefed yourself.’ Again with a smile on her face, Foster replied: ‘No, because Jonathan signed off on a submission on the 4th of September …’
Nolan cut across her: ‘Do you not want to know?’ Again shifting the focus to Bell, she replied: ‘Well, I’m sure you’ve asked him the reason why he’s left the scheme open for that period of time. I’d be very interested to hear why he has said that …’ Foster went on to deny Bell’s allegation that she had shouted at him to keep the scheme open, and counter-alleged that it was Bell who had ‘used his physical bulk to stand over me in quite an aggressive way … he is a very aggressive individual’.
Foster presented the final two-week delay in closing the scheme – a point after cost controls were in place but which led to a multi-million pound increase to the bill for taxpayers – as being down to civil service and legal concerns. It would later emerge that in reality that delay had been a political price extracted by Sinn Féin. Even at this stage, when fighting for her political career, Foster was still trying to cover the full story to protect the DUP’s relationship with Sinn Féin – a fact republicans would soon forget as they rewrote history and presented her as someone with whom it was impossible to work.
As soon as the interview finished, Foster took off her microphone and left the room, without saying goodbye. Johnston immediately got to his feet and approached Nolan, threatening legal action over Bell’s allegation about his role in the scandal.
After the interview aired, the broadcast returned live to Nolan in the studio with BBC NI’s political editor, Mark Devenport. Devenport, a hugely experienced journalist not given to exaggeration, began by saying: ‘Words are almost failing me.’ The programme ended with a flurry of rights of reply from those named
