Since you’re talking about the accelerator and its detectors... how much did the LHC and its four experiments cost?
- The LHC machine costs around 5 billion Swiss francs, material and personnel included. The detectors cost about 1.3 billion Swiss francs. In total, by adding the costs related to data processing, the overall cost can be estimated at 7 billion Swiss francs.”
| That is about 6.5 billion euros. It is said that tax fraud causes Europe to lose at least 1 trillion euros a year... so let’s not aim at the wrong target! |
“Finally, to conclude on the question of costs, could you tell us what CERN’s energy bill is?
- All right; wait, I’ll find the number in this little booklet... Here it is: if we assume that the LHC operates 270 days a year, the energy used is equivalent to the power consumed by a third of the canton of Geneva over a year, or about 1.2 terawatt hours. That’s about 50 million euros — not so surprising, considering the machine you run!”
| You can put it in perspective the next time you receive your electricity bill. |
“Now that we’ve gone through the costs, it’s time for THE crucial question that everyone asks... Are all these expenses worth it?
- I think there are three possible types of answers. First of all, there is the “philosophical” answer, in a sense: CERN is used to better understand the world in which we live. Humanity will never cease to ask itself questions about the functioning of the universe; its will to know is inexhaustible! In your opinion, why did the discovery of the Higgs boson have a significant impact on the public? Because people, even without perhaps fully understanding what it is, are aware that it is related both to the origin of the mass of particles and to that of the universe, so in a way to our own origin. However, to enable such discoveries, current research requires ever more efficient instruments, which can be developed only through international collaborations. This more than anything is what justifies the existence of an organization like CERN, which is international by nature...”
Arnaud Marsollier
| That is true: I personally understood at CERN the importance in particle physics of the proverb “unity is strength”! |
“... Then there is the economic argument: CERN makes possible technological developments that have tangible impacts on industry. Studies have shown that for every euro invested in CERN, the return is 2 to 3 euros for contributors, particularly for France and Switzerland. New countries regularly join the organization, and they do not do so for no reason: they understand very well that, when such complex instruments are manufactured at the cutting edge of current technology, the industry concerned is enabled to become better and more competitive.
Could you give us a concrete example of this?
- Yes, there are many, but medical applications are often mentioned as a priority, because in this field everyone can understand the impact and importance that new technological developments can have. Proton therapy and some medical imaging technologies, for example, come from particle physics. Treating cancers today with particle beams is possible only because at some point physicists — at CERN and elsewhere — have learned to manufacture and operate these machines. They are now used to improve diagnosis and destroy tumours with very high accuracy.
Are there prospects for applications in industry based on technologies currently developed at CERN for particle physics?
- You know, it is always difficult to predict which technologies developed today for particle physics will find applications in industry tomorrow. Of course, we do not invent the Web every year, but history is full of examples of essential applications that were first developed through fundamental research. Things emerge as they happen, over the long term. But there are prospects, for example in the field of superconductivity...”
| Superconductivity allows electrical currents to pass through certain materials (usually at very low temperatures) with zero resistance, which considerably reduces energy losses. |
“... For example, superconducting cables are being developed for the LHC High Lumi: who knows but they may be used in a few years’ time to transport energy with much less loss? Thanks to superconductivity, increasingly powerful magnets are also being developed, which can have applications in neurology, for example.
Indeed: I myself attended a lecture at CERN given by the Director of Neurospin, a French research centre dedicated to brain research. He said that Neurospin owes a lot to the work done at CERN, because superconducting magnets will greatly improve brain imaging. These advances could, for example, lead to a better understanding of brain-related diseases, or to a better understanding of the mechanics of thinking by studying brain activity more accurately. But let us return to the initial question about the interest of financing CERN: we have talked about knowledge in itself, and economic benefits. What would be the third argument?
- This is a strategic argument. The emergence of new technologies for particle physics or other applications is accompanied by contracts for industry. But above all, CERN is a real place of knowledge transfer, with thousands of young people coming here to do their theses in part and then returning to the business world with a high level of qualification: this has great value, even if it is not financial. It is therefore not possible to limit ourselves to purely economic spinoffs to assess returns on investment in the case of an organization such as CERN, whose training role is essential.
The last word?
- I would say that CERN is not expensive in terms of the impact it has on society. The economic benefits of the Web are certainly much greater than anything CERN will ever cost! Moreover, if the Web had not been invented by CERN, it would probably not be in the public domain and therefore free as it is today — and we would surely have to pay royalties to its inventor! In general, for all that CERN provides in terms of fundamental knowledge and technological innovation, it is a necessary organization. But I would like to add one more very important thing: CERN is one of the finest examples of international collaboration, one which shows the magnitude of the possible challenges that can be faced when men and women from all over the world come together peacefully around this noble cause that transcends nations and cultures: namely, advancing knowledge.
It’s funny, you just reached almost the same conclusion as Bernard, whom we just interviewed! Thank you very much, Arnaud, for all these explanations. I think it is important to bear in mind that CERN, even if it is primarily dedicated to basic research, has repercussions for industry and in our daily lives, without being a financial pitfall for contributing states. We will continue the visit with this in mind. See you soon!
- Goodbye, and thank you for visiting!”
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