Rankin. What two men were you with?
Mrs. Oswald. Two men from the Dallas courthouse.
Mr. Rankin. From the police?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes, from the police.
So Mr. Tommy Thompson came and they asked for his credentials. I had never even—as thorough as I am trying to be—I am trying to tell you there are some things I don't know because of the confusion—I didn't ask for the credentials. I could have been with anybody. I just assumed they were Life representatives. I had not asked. But these Dallas detectives or police, in plain clothes, asked Mr. Tommy Thompson for his credentials, and then left us in his care again.
Immediately Mr. Tommy Thompson said, "Mrs. Oswald, what do you plan to do now?"
The interpreter was gone, and so was the other representative, Mr. Allen Grant.
I said, "Well, the arrangement was that we were going to stay here in the hotel for a few days, and you were going to pay expenses."
He said, "But you have not given us any facts."
They were not interested—and to me it seems very strange that they were not interested in my conversation at the jail with my son. They did not even ask if we saw Lee. Yet they knew we left the Adolphus Hotel in order to go see Lee. But they did not even ask if we saw Lee. And I have often wondered about that.
So when I told him that we expected to stay there, he said, "Well, Mrs. Oswald, the reporters will be coming in flocks, they know where you are. Just a minute."
He got on the telephone. Mr. Allen Grant—they had a Life—the Life representatives had a room on the ninth floor where they had a lot of men working on this case, and we were on the 11th, I believe. So Mr. Allen Grant came down from the ninth floor with another man—I do not know his name—because the baby's diapers had to be changed and things of this sort. He said, "Mrs. Oswald"—they left. Tommy Thompson said, "Mrs. Oswald, what we are going to do is get you on the outskirts of town, so the reporters won't know where you are, and here is some money for your expenses in case you need anything."
Well, I took the bill, and I put it in my uniform pocket without looking at it. That may sound strange to you gentlemen, but this is confusion. I knew it was money, and I just put it in my uniform pocket.
So Mr. Allen Grant escorted my daughter-in-law and I out of the hotel, the Adolphus Hotel, and took us to the Executive Inn, which is on the outskirts of Dallas. We sat in the car. He went in and came out, then, and said, "Mrs. Oswald, I have arranged for you all to stay here for 2 or 3 days. I have to be back in San Francisco. Anything you want you have your cash that Mr. Tommy Thompson gave you. And he will be in touch with you."
Well, I didn't think too much of it. He escorted us with a porter up to our room.
We had two beautiful suites—two, not one—completed rooms and baths, adjoining, at the Executive Inn. And that was the last time I had seen either representative. I was stranded with a Russian girl and two babies. I didn't realize in the beginning. But then it was time for food, and I had to order food. I told Marina to stay aside and that I would let the man in. She stayed in her room. I let this man in with the food, and then I became uneasy, that he might know who we were is what I was uneasy about, because I didn't realize the danger actually Marina and I were in.
I sensed we were alone. And there I was with a Russian girl. And I didn't want anybody to know who we were, because I knew my son had been picked up.
So this is where the picture comes in.
While there, Marina—there is an ashtray on the dressing table. And Marina comes with bits of paper, and puts them in the ashtray and strikes a match to it. And this is the picture of the gun that Marina tore up into bits of paper, and struck a match to it.
Now, that didn't burn completely, because it was heavy—not cardboard—what is the name for it—a photographic picture. So the match didn't take it completely.
Mr. Rankin. Had you said anything to her about burning it before that?
Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. The last time I had seen the picture was in Marina's shoe when she was trying to tell me that the picture was in her shoe. I state here now that Marina meant for me to have that picture, from the very beginning, in Mrs. Paine's home. She said—I testified before—"Mamma, you keep picture."
And then she showed it to me in the courthouse. And when I refused it, then she decided to get rid of the picture.
She tore up the picture and struck a match to it. Then I took it and flushed it down the toilet.
Mr. Rankin. And what time was this?
Mrs. Oswald. This—now, just a minute, gentlemen, because this I know is very important to me and to you, too.
We had been in the jail. This was an evening. Well, this, then, would be approximately 5:30 or 6 in the evening.
Mr. Rankin. What day?
Mrs. Oswald. On Saturday, November 23. Now, I flushed the torn bits and the half-burned thing down the commode. And nothing was said. There was nothing said.
Mr. Rankin. That was at the Executive Inn?
Mrs. Oswald. At the Executive Inn.
Now, Mr. Hart Odum, the same FBI agent, that insisted upon my daughter-in-law going with him from the Adolphus Hotel, knocked on the door at the Executive Inn. I had had my robe and slippers on, and I pushed the curtain aside when he knocked. He said, "This is Mr. Odum."
So, I opened the door. This is very important. I would like to not talk about it. I would like to show you what I did. This is so important.
I opened the door just a little, because I had the robe off and I didn't want anybody to come in. The door is just ajar. I am going to take my shoes off, gentlemen, because I have this worked out. This is my height. He said, "Mrs. Oswald, we would like to see Marina."
I said, "Mr. Odum, I stated yesterday you are not going to see Marina. We are awful tired."
"Well, we just want to ask her one question."
"Mr. Odum, I am not calling my daughter. As a matter of fact, she is taking a bath."
She wasn't.
He said, "Mrs. Oswald, I would like to ask you a question."
I said, "Yes, sir." The door is ajar. This is my height. I wear bifocals, which enlarges things. And in his hand—his hand is bigger than mine—in the cup of his hand, like this, is a picture. And the two corners are torn off the picture. This is a very glossy black and white picture of a man's face and shoulder.
Now, Mr. Odum wasn't too tall. I need somebody else. Mr. Odum's hand with the picture—what I am trying to say—he is facing this way—showing me. So my eyes are looking straight at the picture. And I have nothing else to see but this hand and the picture, because the door is ajar. And there is nothing on the picture but a face and shoulders. There is no background or anything. So I can identify this picture amongst millions of pictures, I am so sure of it. It was a glossy black and white picture. So I said, "No, sir, believe me. I have never seen this picture in my life."
With that, he went off.
There
