we were not welcome, sir. We were welcome for a few days. But then we were to get a place of our own—because her mother lived with her, and her mother had left to go visit a sister. So Lee and I could come to visit. But we were not going to live with John and his wife.
So we just stayed there a short time.
Mr. Rankin. Was there any time that you recall that there was a threat of Lee Oswald against Mrs. Pic with a knife or anything like that?
Do you remember that?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes, I do. I am glad you said that.
My daughter-in-law was very upset. The very first time we went there—I stated before, and I am glad I said that—that we were not welcome. And immediately it was asked what did we plan to do, as soon as we put our foot in the house. And I had made it plain to John Edward that I was going to have a place of my own, that we were just coming there to get located.
My daughter-in-law resented the fact that her mother—this went on before I got there—that her mother had to leave the house and go visit a sister so I could come, John Edward's mother. I had never met my daughter-in-law. She didn't like me, and she didn't like Lee.
So she—what is the word to say—not picked on the child, but she showed her displeasure.
And she is a very—not, I would say so much an emotional person—but this girl is a New Yorker who was brought up in this particular neighborhood, which I believe is a poor section of New York.
The mother had lived in this home all her life. And this girl cursed like a trooper. She is—you cannot express it, Mr. Rankin—but not of a character of a high caliber.
At this particular time she had never been out of this neighborhood, or out of New York. And Lee loved the little baby. And he played with the baby and wanted to hold the baby and everything, which she objected.
We were not wanted, sir, from the very beginning. So there was, I think now—it was not a kitchen knife—it was a little pocket knife, a child's knife, that Lee had. So she hit Lee. So Lee had the knife—now, I remember this distinctly, because I remember how awful I thought Marjory was about this. Lee had the knife in his hand. He was whittling, because John Edward whittled ships and taught Lee to whittle ships. He puts them in the glass, you know. And he was whittling when this incident occurred. And that is what it occurred about, because there was scraps of the wood on the floor.
So when she attacked the child, he had the knife in hand. So she made the statement to my son that we had to leave, that Lee tried to use a knife on her.
Now, I say that is not true, gentlemen. You can be provoked into something. And because of the fact that he was whittling, and had the knife in his hand, they struggled.
He did not use the knife—he had an opportunity to use the knife.
But it wasn't a kitchen knife or a big knife. It was a little knife.
So I will explain it that way, sir.
So immediately then I started to look for a place.
I did find a place, I think, off the Concourse. I do not remember the street.
Mr. Rankin. Was that in the Bronx?
Mrs. Oswald. Off the Concourse, in the Bronx. And it was a basement apartment.
I had shipped some of my furniture. It was in a storehouse at this time. So I got it out and put it in this basement.
Lee had his own single bed. It was a one—one great big, big room. But we had the kitchen—regular New York type style—the kitchen and the bedroom and everything together, but large enough—a big one-room apartment. And there was a single bed that Lee slept on, and I slept on the studio couch.
Then Lee went to school.
Mr. Rankin. Was that Public School 117?
Mrs. Oswald. I have that information here.
Went to school in the neighborhood, Public School 117, which is a junior high school in the Bronx. It states here he attended 15 of 47 days. This is the place we were living that Lee was picked up by the truant officer in the Bronx Zoo.
I was informed of this at work, and I had to appear before a board, which I did.
Lee went back to school.
Then he was picked up again in the Bronx Zoo. And I had to appear before a board committee again.
Then the third time that Lee was picked up, we were—I never did get a subpena, but we were told that he had to appear at Children's Court. But I never—how I got the notice to appear at Children's Court—I am at a loss, sir.
But I did not contact at this time a lawyer or anything. I did not know. I did not think it was anything serious, because the Texas laws are not like the New York laws. In New York, if you are out of school one day you go to Children's Court. In Texas the children stay out of school for months at a time.
Lee had never done this. So I appeared with my son in court. There was a judge asked me if I want to be represented by court counsel. And I believe I said, yes, I believe I was represented by the court counsel at this particular time. And within a few minutes time—because there were hundreds of people sitting, waiting with their truant children, and it was just like this—you didn't take the time we are taking here, a half hour, to discuss the case. It was done immediately.
My child was taken from me in the courtroom.
Mr. Rankin. Had he been out of school quite a bit?
Mrs. Oswald. No, sir. At this time, he had not been out of school quite a bit.
So then I was given a slip of paper—no, I am sorry. I was told where to go, where Lee was, which was another office.
They took Lee from me in the courtroom, two men, officers, presumably. Then I went into another office and here was Lee. Lee was wearing his brother's Marine ring, just an ornament ring. They gave me Lee's ring and the things he had in his pocket, and told me that Lee was going to be at this home, which I think the name was the Warwick Home for Boys. And gave me a slip of paper and told me when I could visit Lee.
And that was all I knew at this particular time.
The child was immediately taken, and I was told to visit the child.
Now, I believe it was—this home was in Brooklyn. I may have the name wrong. It was an old, old home in Brooklyn.
So I went to visit my son.
And I hope some day to rectify this, because I think conditions of this kind in our United States of America are deplorable. And I want that to go down in the record.
Mr. Rankin. Did they tell you why he was taken to this home, your son?
Mrs. Oswald. For truancy, yes, sir.
So I had to stand single file approximately a block and a half, sir, with Puerto Ricans and Negroes and everything, and people of my class, single file, until we got to the main part of this building, which had a wire, a very heavy wire, partition wire, a man sitting back of the desk, but a man in the front of the gate that let me in. I had packages of gum and some
