said to him?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. I pointed out—I felt like since it was to be under the regular enlistment period very shortly thereafter, I believe September 11, 1959, that it would have been the wise thing to stay in.
Mr. Jenner. What did he say to that?
Mr. Oswald. I do not recall, sir.
Mr. Jenner. You were living in Fort Worth, married, and still you were having substantially little contact with your mother, is that correct?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. Would you explain to the Commission the reasons for that, the conditions which brought that about?
Mr. Oswald. After my marriage to Vada M. Oswald, my mother on a number of occasions—I say a number—perhaps three or four occasions—made it quite difficult for my wife and myself when we were in her presence at her apartment there in Fort Worth.
Mr. Jenner. Now, please, Mr. Oswald—when you say your mother made it quite difficult, give us some examples. What do you mean by "made it quite difficult"?
Mr. Oswald. Generally, sir, it was the continuation that, even though I was married and apparently able to take care of myself and start my own family, she certainly wanted to—my mother certainly wanted to—still control my thinking, my actions, and my wife's actions.
Mr. Jenner. Can you give us one specific example?
Mr. Oswald. Sir, I cannot recall any specific examples.
Mr. Jenner. Indicate the nature of those incidents.
Mr. Dulles. Had she objected to your marriage?
Mr. Oswald. I don't believe she did, sir. At least I do not recall any time that she ever stated that, any objections to my marriage.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have the feeling that she objected?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, to some extent I did.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have a conversation with her about your becoming married before you became married?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, I did.
Mr. Jenner. And did she—what views did she express in that connection?
Mr. Oswald. I believe, sir, that would be generally that I was leaving her alone, that both Lee and John at this time were in the service, and she would be alone, and that she would like for me to live with her, that I would stay with her.
Mr. Jenner. When was your marriage again, please?
Mr. Oswald. I have never stated it before, sir. It was in November—November 20 or 21, 1956.
Mr. McKenzie. Off the record.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Jenner. The question has been asked of you as to the date of your marriage.
Mr. Oswald. This was in November 1956, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Had you been courting your present wife prior to that time?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Was your mother acquainted with her?
Mr. Oswald. Yes sir; she was.
Mr. Jenner. Did she—did her objections to your marriage, in addition to those you stated—were there any personalities in the sense of her objecting to your fiance?
Mr. Oswald. None that I recall, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Did you have any feeling that there was any personality in the sense of objection on her part, or lack of approval of your fiance?
Mr. Oswald. If I might say, sir, I feel sure there was, and in my mind right now—I can think of really no one that she ever approved of to the extent of my friend, either boys or girls.
Mr. Jenner. Was that also true of your brother, John Pic? And I will also ask you about Lee Harvey.
Mr. Oswald. John very seldom, if memory serves me correct, ever brought any of his friends over to the house, to meet mother.
Mr. Jenner. Presented them to mother, you mean?
Mr. Oswald. Presented them to mother.
Mr. Jenner. Was that his choice?
Mr. Oswald. I would say so now that I believe it would have been his choice.
Mr. Jenner. He preferred not to?
Mr. Oswald. This would be my assumption, that he preferred not to.
Mr. Jenner. Not presenting his friends to your mother?
Mr. Oswald. Yes sir; that is correct.
Mr. Jenner. Would you answer the same question as to Lee, as to whether he brought his friends to your home?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I believe he did. He quite frequently played around the house with friends there in the neighborhood.
Mr. Jenner. They were children, however, in the immediate neighborhood?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Jenner. He is five years younger than you.
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. He would have been 13 in 1952, this period we are talking about.
Mr. Jenner. We are interested in this matter of the antipathy existing between you and John on the one hand and your mother on the other. Had that gone on for sometime? In order that I don't violate the same thing that I raise with you occasionally, let me take you back to the military school days, or to Bethlehem Orphanage. Did a measure of antipathy exist at that time?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I don't believe it did.
Mr. Jenner. When did it really arise in any marked degree?
Mr. Oswald. I believe after her divorce from Mr. Ekdahl.
Mr. Jenner. That was in June 1948.
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. And from the time that we moved to the Young Street address in Fort Worth.
Mr. Jenner. At or about that time?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Would you refresh my recollection as to when that was? Was that in 1948?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. Jenner. Would you please indicate how that antipathy or that change was evident? What change of attitude was there, either on the part of you boys, or on her part, or on the part of all of you?
Mr. Oswald. Perhaps, sir, for the first time in any period, all of us were together. And perhaps, sir—I say perhaps this would be correct—she did not know myself and my older brother John at that particular time to any extent.
Mr.
