Jenner. Was it—yes or no?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. By whom; Mr. Gopadze, by interpretation, interpreting Marina?
Mr. Oswald. There, again, sir, this was knowledge given to me after their departure.
Mr. Jenner. Yes—but through what source did you obtain it?
Mr. Oswald. Through Mr. Gopadze, in the presence of Marina Oswald.
And other Secret Service agents.
Mr. Jenner. And what did he say as to her aversion?
Mr. Oswald. That Marina had recognized this one FBI agent as a man who had come to the Paines' home in Irving, Texas, and perhaps at another location where they might have lived in Dallas, or the surrounding territory, and had questioned Lee on these occasions.
Mr. Jenner. In the home?
Mr. Oswald. In or outside of the home. I do not know whether it took place on the inside—but within the immediate grounds of the home, at least.
Mr. Dulles. And was this early in 1963? Prior, anyway, to November 22, 1963, was it not?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, that is correct. And that this particular one agent—not the Mr. Brown I have referred to, but the other gentleman that I do not recall his name—she had an aversion to speaking to him because she was of the opinion that he had harassed Lee in his interviews, and my observation of this at this time, at this particular interview, was attempting to start—I would say this was certainly so. His manner was very harsh, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Harsh towards Marina?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir, it most certainly was. And by the tone of conversation by Marina to Mr. Gopadze, who was interpreting——
Mr. Jenner. In your presence?
Mr. Oswald. In my presence. And the tone of the reply between this gentleman and Mr. Gopadze, and back to Marina, it was quite evident there was a harshness there, and that Marina did not want to speak to the FBI at that time. And she was refusing to. And they were insisting, sir. And they implied in so many words, as I sat there—if I might state—with Secret Service Agent Gary Seals, of Mobile, Ala.—we were opening the first batch of mail that had come to Marina and Lee's attention, and we were perhaps just four or five feet away from where they were attempting this interview, and it came to my ears that they were implying that if she did not cooperate with the FBI agent there, that this would perhaps—I say, again, I am implying—in so many words, that they would perhaps deport her from the United States and back to Russia.
I arose and called Mr. Mike Howard of the United States Secret Service into the back bathroom, and stated this to him. And I also stated that I realized there was some friction here between the United States Secret Service and the FBI to the extent that I was of the opinion that they did not want the FBI at that time to be aware of the tape recording that had been made of Marina N. Oswald, that she had been interviewed, in other words, by the United States Secret Service before the FBI arrived at the location.
Mr. Jenner. You mean that the Secret Service did not want the FBI to know that they had taped an interview with Marina?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. What was his response?
Mr. Oswald. He said, "Robert, I cannot tell you what to do."
I did ask him if he would go over there to speak to him, and kind of tone it down—if they were going to get anything out of her, they would not get it that way.
And he said he would speak to her.
Approximately, at this time, the telephone rang, and he had to speak on the telephone.
I returned to my chair at the table where we were still opening mail, and again for the second time, the same implication was brought out.
Mr. Jenner. By the FBI agents?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. To Marina?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. In your presence?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. They spoke English?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Was the interpreter whom you named—was he participating?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir. It was from the FBI agent, the other gentleman, not named Brown, to Mr. Gopadze, to Mrs. Oswald, from Mrs. Oswald back to Mr. Gopadze to the other gentleman.
Mr. Jenner. Proceed.
Mr. Oswald. On the second occurrence of this implication, of the same implication, I arose again, and Mr. Howard was walking across the room, and I stopped him, and I told him for the second time, or requested for the second time that he please say something to them about that.
Mr. Jenner. Did you speak loudly enough to be overheard?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir. I just asked Mr. Howard to please inform the FBI that she had, to the contrary, been very cooperative from the time she had been out there, up until their arrival. And, again, I referred to Mr. Howard the reference there of perhaps the friction, or the condition that I assumed, that they did not want the FBI aware of the tape recording at this time.
And his reply to me, he said, "Robert, do what you want to do. You certainly absolutely are free to say anything you want to say."
Mr. Jenner. And did you?
Mr. Oswald. I certainly did, sir.
Mr. Jenner. What did you say? You went over to the agent?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I went over to Mr. Brown, the agent I knew, who was sitting at the end of the coffee table—it was a large round coffee table. And I sat there, and I spoke to him without saying so much about—anything about the tape recording. I did say to him—and I was shaking my finger at him, sir, I might say that—that I resented the implications that they were passing on to Marina, because of her apparent uncooperative attitude.
Mr. Jenner. Supposed, you mean?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
And that I knew for a fact that she had been very cooperative and highly cooperative.
And I returned to my chair at the table.
They attempted for another 5 or 10 minutes to interview Marina Oswald at that time, at which time Mr. Brown—he left the immediate area of interviewing there, and came over and started speaking to me.
I do not recall what our conversation was. I think perhaps it was on what had transpired out there prior to their arrival.
As the other gentlemen arose——
Mr. Jenner. Transpired where, prior to their arrival?
Mr. Oswald. Out at the Inn of the Six Flags,
