God Is Always Near. Pope Francis
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Father Lombardi
And now we call on another Brazilian, Marcio Campos. I also ask Mr. Guénois to come up for the next question for the French.
Pope Francis
I was asking what time it is, because they have to serve supper. But are you all hungry?
Background
No, no….
Marcio Campos
Holy Father, I want to say that whenever you miss Brazil, the joy of the Brazilian people, hold on to the flag I gave you! I would also like to thank my colleagues at the daily newspapers Folha de São Paulo, Estado, Globo, and Veja for being able to represent them with this question. Holy Father, it is difficult to accompany the pope, very difficult! We’re all tired. We’re exhausted, but you’re going strong! In Brazil, the Catholic Church has lost a number of the faithful during these past few years. Is the charismatic renewal movement one possible way for ensuring that the faithful do not go over to the Pentecostal church or other Pentecostal churches? Thank you very much for your presence, and thank you very much for being with us.
Pope Francis
What you’re saying about the fall in numbers among the faithful is very true. It’s true. The statistics are there. We spoke with the Brazilian bishops about this problem at a meeting we held yesterday. You asked about the charismatic renewal movement. I’ll tell you one thing. Back at the end of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s, I had no time for them. Once, speaking about them, I said: “These people confuse a liturgical celebration with samba lessons!” I actually said that. Now I regret it. I got to know them better. It’s also true that the movement, under good leadership, has made great progress. I think this movement does a lot of good for the Church overall. In Buenos Aires, I met frequently with them and once a year I celebrated a Mass with all of them in the cathedral. I have always supported them after I was converted and after I saw the good they were doing.
Because at this time in the Church—and here I’ll make my answer a little more general—I believe that the movements are necessary. The movements are a grace of the Spirit. “But how can you control a movement which is so free?” The Church is free, too! The Holy Spirit does what he wants. He is the one who creates harmony. But I do believe that the movements are a grace—those movements which have the spirit of the Church. Consequently, I don’t think that the charismatic renewal movement merely prevents some people from passing over to Pentecostal denominations. No! It is also a service to the Church herself! It renews us. Everyone seeks his own movement, according to his own charism, where the Holy Spirit draws him or her.
Pope Francis
Now I’m tired!
Father Lombardi
Now Mr. Guénois from Le Figaro.
Jean-Marie Guénois
Holy Father, one question along with my colleague from La Croix: You have said that without women, the Church grows barren. What concrete measures will you take? For example, the diaconate for women? Or a woman as a head of a dicastery? Also, a little technical question…. You said you were tired. Have special arrangements been made for the return flight? Thank you, Your Holiness.
Pope Francis
Let’s begin with the last question. This plane doesn’t have any special accommodations. I’m sitting up front. I have a nice seat, a normal seat, the same as everyone else. I had them write a letter and make a phone call to say that I did not want any special arrangements on the plane. Is that clear?
Second, about women. A Church without women is like the college of the apostles without Mary. The role of women in the Church is not simply that of motherhood, of being mothers. It’s much greater. More precisely, it is to be the icon of the Virgin Mary, of Our Lady, who helps the Church to grow! Think about it: Our Lady is more important than the apostles! She is more important! The Church is feminine. She is Church; she is bride; she is mother.
But women, in the Church, must not only be—I don’t know how to say this in Italian—the role of women in the Church must not be limited to being mothers, workers, a role that is limited. No! It is something else! Pope Paul VI wrote something beautiful about women, but I believe that we have much more to do in making more explicit the role and charism of women. We can’t imagine a Church without women, but women active in the Church, with the distinctive role that they play to move it forward.
I can think of an example that has nothing to do with the Church, but is a historical example in Latin America, in Paraguay. For me, the women of Paraguay are the most glorious women in Latin America. Are you from Paraguay? After the war, there were eight women for every man, and these women made a rather difficult decision: the decision to bear children in order to save their country, their culture, their faith, and their language. In the Church, this is how we should think of women: taking risky decisions, yet as women. This needs to be better explained.
I believe that we have not yet come up with a deep enough theology of womanhood in the Church. All we say is that they can do this and they can do that. Now they can be altar servers, they can do the readings, they can be in charge of Caritas. But there is more! We need to develop a profound theology of womanhood. That is what I think.
Father Lombardi
From the Spanish group, we now have Pablo Ordaz of El País.
Pablo Ordaz
We would like to know about your working relationship—not just your relationship of friendship, but that of collaboration—with Benedict XVI. There has never been a situation like this before. Are the two of you frequently in contact, and is he helping you in your work? Thank you.
Pope Francis
I think the last time there were two popes—or even three popes!—they weren’t speaking to one another. They were fighting over who was the true pope! We ended up with three popes during the Western Schism.
There is one thing that describes my relationship with Benedict: I have such great affection for him. I have always loved him. For me, he is a man of God, a humble man, a man of prayer. I was so happy when he was elected pope. Moreover, when he resigned, for me it was an example of greatness. He is a great man. Only a great man does such a thing! A man of God and a man of prayer.
Now he is living in the Vatican, and there are those who tell me: “How can this be? Two popes in the Vatican! Doesn’t he get in your way? Isn’t he plotting against you?” All sorts of things! I have found a good answer for this: “It’s like having your grandfather in the house—a wise grandfather.” When families have a grandfather at home, he is venerated, he is loved, and people listen to him. Pope Benedict is a man of great prudence. He doesn’t interfere! I have often said to him, “Holiness, receive guests, lead your own life, come along with us.” He did come for the unveiling and blessing of the statue of St. Michael. So, my response says it all.