I was sitting in front of a computer, a computer that had become incarnate! Really! Everything was so well timed, wasn’t it? It was wonderful. We had some problems with the plans for security: security here, security there. Yet, there wasn’t a single accident in the whole of Rio de Janeiro throughout these days, and everything was spontaneous.
With less security, I could have been with the people. I could have embraced them and greeted them without armored cars. There is a certain security in trusting people. It’s true that there is always the danger of some madman, the danger that some mad person will do something, but then, too, there is the Lord! But to make an armed space between a bishop and his people is madness. I prefer the other madness—to be out there and run the risk of the other madness. I prefer the madness of being out there! Closeness is good for us all.
As regards the overall organization of World Youth Day—the artistic element, the religious element, the catechetical element, and the liturgical element—all of it was wonderful! They have an ability to express themselves in art. Yesterday, for example, they did some very lovely things, truly lovely. Then, there is Aparecida. For me, Aparecida was a powerful religious experience. It reminded me of the Fifth Conference [the Fifth General Conference of the Latin American and Caribbean Bishops’ Conferences, CELAM, in Aparecida, Brazil, in 2007]. I went there to pray, to intercede. I wanted to go alone, somewhat hidden, but there was an impressive crowd! So this wouldn’t be possible: I knew this was the case before I arrived. Yet we prayed.
As regards your work, I’ve been told—I haven’t read the newspapers for the past few days because I didn’t have time, nor did I see any television, nothing—but they tell me that you did a really fine job, that your work was really good. Thank you! Thank you for your collaboration; thank you for doing all this.
Then, too, there was the number of young people. Today—I hardly believe it—but today the governor spoke of three million. I cannot believe it. But from the altar—it’s true! I don’t know whether you, or some of you, were up at the altar. From the altar, at the end of Mass, the whole beach was full, as far as the curve—more than four kilometers! There were so many young people. I was told—Archbishop [Orani João] Tempesta [of Rio de Janeiro] told me—that they came from 178 countries! The vice-president gave me the same figure, so it must be true. This is important! It’s amazing!
Father Lombardi
Thank you. Now we invite Juan de Lara to speak first, who is from Efe. He is Spanish, and it is the last journey he will make with us. So we are happy to offer him this opportunity.
Juan de Lara
Your Holiness, good evening. Along with all my colleagues, we would like to thank you for these days that you have given us in Rio de Janeiro, for all the work that you have done and all the effort you have put into them. Furthermore, on behalf of all the journalists from Spain, we want to thank you for your prayers for the victims of the train accident in Santiago de Compostela. Thank you very much.
The first question does not have much to do with the trip, but I would like to take the opportunity that this occasion offers to ask you: Your Holiness, in these four months of your pontificate, we see that you have created various commissions to reform the Curia. I want to ask you: What kind of reform do you have in mind? Do you foresee the possibility of suppressing the Institute for Works of Religion, the so-called Vatican Bank? Thank you.
Pope Francis
The steps I have taken during these four and a half months come from two sources. The content of what needed to be done—all of it—comes from the general congregations of the cardinals. There were certain things that we, cardinals, asked of whoever was to be the new pope. I remember that I asked for many things, thinking that it would be someone else! We asked, for example, for a commission of eight cardinals. We knew that it was important to have an outside body of consultants, not the consultation groups that already exist, but one from the outside.
This is entirely in keeping—and here I am making a mental abstraction, but it’s the way I try to explain it—with the maturing relationship between synodality and primacy. In other words, having these eight cardinals will work in favor of synodality. They will help the various episcopates of the world to express themselves in the government of the Church. There were many proposals that were made that have yet to be implemented, such as the reform of the Secretariat of the Synod and its methodology; the post-synodal commission, which would have a permanent consultative character; the consistories of cardinals with less formal agendas—canonization for example—but also other items, etc. So the source of the content is to be found there.
The second source has to do with present circumstances. I admit that it required a great effort on my part, during the first month of my pontificate, to organize the commission of the eight cardinals, which is an initial step. I was planning to address the financial aspect next year, because it is not the most important thing that needs to be done. But the agenda changed on account of circumstances that you know about, that are in the public domain. Problems arose that had to be dealt with.
The first problem had to do with the Institute for Works of Religion—namely, how to organize it, how to define it, how to reformulate it, and how to put right what needs to be put right. Hence, the origin of the first Commission of Reference, as it is called. You are familiar with the chirograph [an administrative document signed by the pope], what the aims are, who the members are, etc. Then we had the meeting of the commission of fifteen cardinals who follow the economic affairs of the Holy See. They come from all over the world. While we were preparing for this meeting, we saw the need to make a single Commission of Reference for the entire economic structure of the Holy See. In other words, the economic problem was not on the agenda when it had to be addressed, but these things happen when you’re in a position of governance: You try to go in one direction, but then someone throws you a ball from another direction, and you have to bat it back. Isn’t that the way it is? So, life is like that, but this, too, is part of the wonder of life. I repeat the question that you asked me about the Institute for Works of Religion—excuse me, I’m speaking Spanish. Excuse me; the answer came to me in Spanish.
Returning to the question you asked about the Institute for Works of Religion, I don’t know where the Institute for Works of Religion will end up. Some say that maybe it would be better as a bank, others say it should be an aid fund, others say it should be shut down. Well, that’s what people are saying. I don’t know. I trust the work being done by the personnel of the Institute for Works of Religion, who are working on this, as well as the members of the commission. The president of the Institute for Works of Religion is staying—the same one as before—whereas the director and vice–director have resigned. But I don’t know how all this is going to end up. But that’s fine, because we keep looking and we will come up with something. In this regard, we are human. We have to find the best solution. There’s no doubt about that. But the main characteristic of the Institute for Works of Religion [IOR, the Vatican Bank]—whether it should be a bank, an aid fund, or some other thing—is that it has to be one of transparency and honesty. It has to be. Thank you.
Father Lombardi
Thank you very much, Your Holiness. Now we move on to a representative from the Italian group. We have someone you know well—Andrea Tornielli—who will ask you a question on behalf of the Italian group.
Andrea Tornielli
Holy Father, I want to ask something perhaps a little indiscreet. As we set off, there was a photograph of you that went around the world where you are going up the steps of the plane carrying a black briefcase. Articles all over the world have commented on this new departure: the pope climbing the steps carrying his hand luggage, which has never happened before! So, there have been various
