me to him and he said, "Mrs. Oswald"—he didn't tell me what to do. He was very vague about the thing.
I said, "No, Lee is too young, age 16, to join the Marines. They are liable to send him overseas."
He said, "There is less delinquency in Japan and those places than we have here."
He saw nothing wrong with it.
What he was doing was telling me to falsify his birth certificate, but not in plain words. He was telling me it would be all right for the boy to join the Marines. He came to my home personally.
So I went to an attorney with Lee, because—here is the thing.
Lee's birth record is in New Orleans. And I knew that the Marine Corps could easily check on this child, age 16—his birth record. So in order to have a happy situation, so I could work, and to see Lee, I went to an attorney and paid $5 and said that I lost Lee's birth certificate, and kind of motioned to the attorney. I knew it would not stand up. I bought Lee a duffle bag and everything, and Lee went—we told him goodby, and Lee was going to join the Marines.
I had to accept that, gentlemen. There was no other way I could do, but accept the fact to let him go.
Mr. Rankin. Who was that attorney?
Mrs. Oswald. Mr. Clem Sehrt.
Mr. Boggs. What did Mr. Sehrt allegedly tell you?
Mrs. Oswald. Pardon?
Mr. Boggs. What did Mr. Sehrt tell you?
Mrs. Oswald. Mr. Sehrt is a family friend.
Mr. Boggs. I know Mr. Sehrt very well.
Mrs. Oswald. He said according to attorney ethics that he would not be able to advise me. Before you came in, sir, I had stated that.
Now, when I get interrupted, I lose—this is a big thing for me. I am not making excuses. But, gentlemen, it is awfully hard to do this.
So Lee came home. And he said the captain said that he was too young.
Now, I don't question much. I don't know whether Lee changed his mind, or they sent Lee home. I do not know. I do not question that.
All right.
Lee, at age 16, read Robert's Marine manual back and forth. He knew it by heart. Robert had just gotten out of the Marines, and his manual was home. And Lee started to read communistic material along with that.
Mr. Rankin. What communistic material did he read?
Mrs. Oswald. It was a small book that he had gotten out of the library. And I knew he was reading it, Mr. Rankin.
Mr. Rankin. Was it in Marxism, or what was it about?
Mrs. Oswald. No—if you are saying the title is Marxism—no, sir, the title was not.
Mr. Rankin. Was it about communism?
Mrs. Oswald. It was more about communism. I knew he was reading it. But if we have this material in the public libraries, then certainly it is all right for us to read. And I think we should know about these things, and all of our scholars and educators and high school boys read subversive material, which we call subversive material. So I, as a mother, would not take the book away from him. That is fine. Lee is a reader. I have said from early childhood he liked histories and maps.
So that is fine.
What I am saying now—we are getting to this agent part.
He is with this recruiting officer and he is studying the Marine manual—he knew it back and forth. In fact, he would take the book and have me question some of the things. And he was reading communism.
Lee lived for the time that he would become 17 years old to join the Marines—that whole year.
Mr. Rankin. What did he do during that time?
Mrs. Oswald. Pardon?
Mr. Rankin. What did he do during that year?
Mrs. Oswald. What did he do during that year? He was working for—as a messenger for Tujaque and Son.
Mr. Rankin. He had quite a few jobs, did he not?
Mrs. Oswald. Yes. I can explain that to you.
His first job was Tujaque and Son, who was steamship people, and he was a messenger. And then he had a lot of friends.
Now, they say Lee didn't have friends. There were boys of his age—while he was working he had an opportunity to make friends, coming to my home. And one of the young men knew of a better paying job, where they had coffee breaks and everything, so Lee took that job, which was with a dental laboratory—if you have that information, sir.
And I think that is the only two jobs—no, Lee worked after school for Dolly Shoe Co. I was working there, in charge of the hosiery department, and Lee worked on Friday afternoon and Saturday as a shoe salesman.
That was his first job—while he went to school he worked there.
And then when he left school, as I told you, at age 16—the first job was Tujaque and Company, steamship, and then the dental laboratory. And that is the only jobs he had in New Orleans.
Mr. Rankin. Were there not times he didn't have any job during that year?
Mrs. Oswald. No, sir—because when we left New Orleans, Lee left this dental laboratory job—that is correct.
So I moved back to Fort Worth, Tex., because Robert did not want to live in New Orleans. Robert was raised in Texas, and has his girl friends and all his friends in Texas. So when Robert got out of the Marines, he wanted to live in Texas. So I know that Lee wants to join the Marines at age 17, so in the month of July 1956—and, gentlemen, I have always been broke, and I mean broke. About a week before rent time, we had it pretty hard in order to have that rent. Yet I take my furniture and ship it to New Orleans so Lee could be with his brother and we could be with the family—thinking maybe with Robert he would not join the Marines at age 17 and finish his schooling.
When Lee became age 17, October 18th, he joined the Marines.
The reason why he didn't go into the Marines until October 24th was the recruiting officer at the Marines could not understand his birth certificate, because his father had died 2 months before. So I had to send for an affidavit, even though I had the death notice from the paper and everything, and they could have—they could not understand that about that two months. I had to send to New Orleans for an affidavit of his father's death.
And so then Lee joined the Marines on October 24th.
From the 18th to the 24th every day Lee was leaving. We even laughed about it. Because he would leave in the morning and come home in the evening. And it was because he was born 2 months before his father—so he did join the Marines at age 18.
Now—that, Mr. Dulles, is the part you wanted to know. But, before, that has something to do with it. Lee——
Mr. Rankin. Mr. Dulles wanted to know what you based this idea that he was an agent
