returning from the cemetery?
Mr. Oswald. On the way to the cemetery, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Please try to reconstruct the circumstances, and state as clearly as you can how she raised the subject with you, and what she said—first stating, however, who was in the automobile as you were driving to the cemetery.
Mr. Oswald. It was Marina N. Oswald and myself, only.
Mr. Jenner. All right.
Now, try to—give us the scene just as it occurred—how she brought it out.
Mr. Oswald. We had been talking about the children, her children and my children, family affairs, and so forth, attempting to carry on a reasonable facsimile of a complete conversation within her limited knowledge of English. And at a pause in this conversation, she started relating to me this incident.
Mr. Jenner. Please, Mr. Oswald—when you say she started relating this incident, it doesn't help us any, it is not evidentiary. How did she do it? What did she say, as best you are able to recall? How did she bring it up?
Mr. McKenzie. In her own words, Robert, try to reconstruct exactly what was said to you from the time you left Jim Martin's house until you went—in Dallas, Tex., until you arrived in Fort Worth, Tex., at the cemetery.
Mr. Oswald. On this subject, to the best of my knowledge, Marina said to me, "Robert, Lee also wanted to shoot Mr. Nixon." And, at that time, I believe I gave her the statement that "Yes, Jim told me about this when we were sitting in the den that afternoon."
Mr. Jenner. You say you gave her the statement—you mean that is what you said to her?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
And she made her statement, referring to this incident of Mr. Nixon.
And then she related——
Mr. Jenner. What did she say?
Mr. Oswald. I might say this, sir. In practically the same words that Mr. Martin had told me, because he had reportedly received the conversation from Marina, within her limited English—it rang a bell to the extent that the words were close to being the same to the way Mr. Martin had related it to me.
It was a very brief statement on her behalf that Lee was going to shoot Mr. Richard M. Nixon, and that she, Marina N. Oswald, locked Lee in the bathroom all day.
I did ask her was he very angry. Her reply was at first he certainly was, or was, but later——
Mr. Jenner. When you say at first, you mean her first response to your question was, "He certainly was."
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; or that he was. I don't believe she knows the word "certainly." That he was angry, and that he calmed down during the period that he was locked in the bathroom.
And I asked her at the end of that statement, "Did he beat you or hurt you?"
She said, "No, he did not spank me."
That is, to the best of my recollection, the entire conversation on the incident of Mr. Richard M. Nixon.
Mr. Jenner. Did you inquire—you have now exhausted your recollection?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Did you inquire of her as to when this incident took place?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Jenner. Did she volunteer it?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; she did not.
Mr. Jenner. Did you inquire of Mr. Martin as to when the incident took place?
Mr. Oswald. I do not recall that I did, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Did you make any inquiry as to where they were residing at the time the incident was alleged to have taken place, or might have taken place?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Jenner. Did you assume any particular residence?
Mr. Oswald. I assumed that this took place in one of two apartments that they lived in in Dallas, Tex. The addresses I am not familiar with. They are the only two houses or apartments that I did see for myself from the outside on the night of Thanksgiving, 1963, whatever the date was, at which time we had dinner at the Martin's home for the first time that Mrs. Martin had met Marina N. Oswald.
And, at the conclusion of the dinner, the Secret Service agents, with us, wanted Marina to point out to them the two apartments that they had lived in in Dallas.
Mr. Jenner. And you accompanied them, did you?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I was in the car.
Mr. Jenner. Did you thereafter pursue this occurrence, or alleged occurrence, and obtain any additional information about it, with anybody—the Secret Service, the FBI, Mr. Thorne, Mr. Martin, Marina—anybody at all?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I have not.
Mr. Jenner. Did you inquire of Marina as to how she locked him in the bathroom?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Jenner. Did it occur to you that it might be quite difficult for a 98-pound woman to lock your brother in a bathroom?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it has occurred to me exactly how this was possible, to the extent that a bathroom usually has a lock on the inside and not on the outside.
Mr. Jenner. Well, if he didn't want to be locked in the bathroom, she would have quite a difficulty—she could not force him into the bathroom.
Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Jenner, that is a question for rank speculation.
Mr. Jenner. I appreciate that, sir. I am trying to jog his recollection.
Mr. McKenzie. May I ask him a question at this time to maybe perhaps assist you?
The Chairman. You may ask, yes.
Mr. McKenzie. Robert, has Marina told you at anytime or do you now know where they were residing when this occurrence happened?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; she has not. And I am not aware from any source where this event took place.
Mr. McKenzie. Were you ever in their apartments in Dallas, Tex., at anytime?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I was not.
Mr. McKenzie. Prior to going to—with the Secret Service and Marina on Thanksgiving evening, was that the first time that you had ever seen the apartments where they lived?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct, sir.
The Chairman. I think we will take a break now.
I must be going to my conference. So we will recess for just a moment.
(Brief recess.)
Mr. Dulles. The Commission will come to order.
Mr.
