your brother on the sixth floor of the Dallas—is that Dallas County?
Mr. McKenzie. No; it is Dallas City Jail.
Mr. Jenner. Dallas City Jail—had I had any conversation with you at all on that subject?
Mr. Oswald. None that I recall, sir.
Mr. Jenner. Thank you.
Mr. McKenzie. That is all, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Dulles. That will then conclude the testimony of Mr. Robert Oswald, with the understanding that the Commission might later wish to recall him if any facts are adduced that would make that desirable.
Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Dulles—is he now released from his oath to the Commission, subject to recall and being resworn?
Mr. Dulles. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. That is correct. That is my understanding.
In any event, I so agree, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. McKenzie. Thank you, sir.
I would like to state to the Commission one further thing, Mr. Dulles, if I may. We very much appreciate, and by "we" I mean myself as counsel, and Mr. Oswald as a witness, the manner in which the Commission and its counsel have conducted the interrogation of Mr. Oswald. We further appreciate the opportunity to be in Washington and to be heard, and hope that in some manner that we may assist in shedding some light that will assist this Commission in making its final report, and that the true facts of this situation will be known to the President of the United States to use at his discretion.
Mr. Dulles. Thank you very much, Mr. McKenzie.
Mr. Jenner. May I ask one more question?
Up until this afternoon when I questioned you, possibly there might have been a question this morning on the subject of any opinion which you might have held dealing with whether your brother did or did not participate in the shooting of Officer Tippit or the assassination of President Kennedy, had I had any conversation with you on that subject?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I believe you had.
Mr. Jenner. When was that?
Mr. Oswald. I believe this was on the first session, during the first session on Wednesday, February 20, 1964.
Mr. Jenner. Was it in this room?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; it was.
Mr. Jenner. That is all I meant. I had no separate—no conversation with you on the subject other than as I might have put a question to you in the presence of the Commission.
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. Thank you.
Mr. Dulles. And a part of the record.
Mr. Jenner. And as part of the record; yes, sir.
Mr. Dulles. We will adjourn.
(Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
Thursday, February 27, 1964
TESTIMONY OF JAMES HERBERT MARTIN
The President's Commission met 9:25 a.m. on February 27, 1964, at 200 Maryland Avenue NE., Washington, D.C.
Present were Chief Justice Earl Warren, Chairman; Senator John Sherman Cooper, Representative Hale Boggs, Representative Gerald R. Ford, and Allen W. Dulles, members.
Also present were J. Lee Rankin, general counsel; Norman Redlich, assistant counsel; Paul W. Leech, counsel to James Herbert Martin; Charles Murray and Charles Rhyne, observers; and Dean Robert G. Storey, special counsel to the attorney general of Texas.
The Chairman. The Commission will be in order.
Let the record show that Mr. Martin, first that Commissioners Dulles and Ford and I are present.
Mr. Martin, the witness, is here with his lawyer; would you state your name for the record, please?
Mr. Leech. Paul Leech.
The Chairman. Mr. Leech, I understand you are a partner of Mr. Thorne who was here representing Mrs. Oswald.
Mr. Leech. Yes, sir.
The Chairman. Gentlemen, I will just read an opening statement to you that we make for the record and for the benefit of the witness each time we convene.
On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued Executive Order No. 11130 appointing a Commission "to ascertain, evaluate and report upon the facts relating to the assassination of the late President John F. Kennedy, and the subsequent violent death of the man charged with the assassination."
On December 13, 1963, Congress adopted Joint Resolution S.J. 137 which authorizes the Commission, or any member of the Commission, or any agent or agency designated by the Commission for such purpose, to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence.
On January 21, 1964, the Commission adopted a resolution authorizing each member of the Commission and its General Counsel, J. Lee Rankin, to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence.
On January 21, 1964, the Commission adopted a resolution authorizing each member of the Commission and its General Counsel, J. Lee Rankin, to administer oaths and affirmations, examine witnesses, and receive evidence concerning any matter under investigation by the Commission.
The purpose of this hearing is to take the testimony of Mr. James Herbert Martin who has acted as the business manager of Mrs. Marina Oswald, the widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, who, prior to his death, was charged with the assassination of President Kennedy. In view of Mr. Martin's close association with Mrs. Oswald it is the intention of this Commission to ask Mr. Martin questions concerning this association and any and all matters related to the assassination, and to the subsequent killing of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. Martin has been furnished with a copy of this statement and a copy of the rules adopted by the Commission for the taking of testimony or the production of evidence. Mr. Martin has also been furnished with a copy of Executive Order No. 11130 and Congressional Resolution S.J. Res. 137 which set forth the general scope of the Commission's inquiry and its authority for the examining of witnesses and the receiving of evidence.
I should also like to read into the record at this time a copy of a letter dated February 22, 1964, to Mr. Martin from Mr. J. Lee Rankin, General Counsel of the Commission, which reads as follows:
"Dear Mr. Martin:
"Confirming discussions between the staff of this Commission and John M. Thorne, Esquire, your counsel, we hereby request that you appear before this Commission at 9:00 a.m., on February 27, 1964, at Room 400, 200 Maryland Avenue, NE., Washington, D.C., for the purpose of giving sworn testimony concerning your association with Mrs. Marina Oswald and your knowledge of the facts relating to the assassination of President Kennedy and the subsequent killing of Lee Harvey Oswald.
"You
