Jenner. Now, I would like to direct your attention to page 5 of your notebook.
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. At that point you were recording the course of events on what day?
Mr. Oswald. Friday, November 22, 1963.
Mr. Jenner. To orient you and the Commission, the entry to which I refer, that is the paragraph, reads as follows. Follow me, please.
"Mother and I talked briefly and after about 30 minutes we were taken across the hall to where Marina and the two children were. (This was the first I knew of the new baby.) A Mrs. Paine was also present. We talked a little and shortly Mr. Paine—who the police had been talking to, came out of the office and Mrs. Paine introduced us. I did not like the appearance of Mr. Paine, nothing really to put my finger on, but I just had a feeling.
"I still do not know why or how"—what is that next word?
Mr. Oswald. "but".
Mr. Jenner. "But Mr. and Mrs. Paine are somehow involved in this affair. Shortly thereafter Mother, Marina, and the children and the Paines left to go to the Paines' house in Irving, and I advised them I would stay there and see them tomorrow."
When you recorded "I would stay there" you mean remain in Dallas? What did you mean?
Mr. Oswald. My full meaning there, sir, was that I would remain at the Dallas police station, and take a hotel room in Dallas, and spend the night.
Mr. Jenner. Now——
Mr. Dulles. May I ask just one question there for clarity? It refers to an office. Is that the office of the Dallas police?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Dulles. The Dallas police station?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner. I take it from this entry you had not heretofore ever met either Mr. or Mrs. Paine?
Mr. Oswald. That is correct.
Mr. Jenner. And would you elaborate upon, please, your statement recorded on December 6, 1963, that you did not like the appearance of Mr. Paine "nothing really to put my finger on, but I just had a feeling. I still do not know why or how, but Mr. and Mrs. Paine are somehow involved in this affair."
Mr. Oswald. Well, I was introduced to Mr. Paine at the Dallas police office on the night of November 22, 1963. His wife introduced us. His handshake was very weak and what I might term a live fish handshake.
Mr. Jenner. Live or dead?
Mr. Oswald. And his general appearance, his face, and most particularly his eyes to me had what I would term a distant look to them, and that he wasn't really looking at you when he was.
Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Jenner, if you will, please, would you ask the witness whether he meant a live fish or a cold dead fish.
Mr. Oswald. Sir, I believe I mean a live fish. A cold, dead fish would be stiff.
Mr. McKenzie. All right.
Mr. Jenner. We are seeking to obtain the basis upon which you made this entry.
Mr. Oswald. It was Mr. Paine's general appearance and the manner in which he held himself, and by this I mean the way he stood and the way he looked at you, and you had that feeling, as I stated before, that he was not really looking at you.
Mr. Dulles. You say there that Mrs. Paine introduced Mr. Paine to you. When had you previously made the acquaintance of Mrs. Paine—just before this?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Dulles. On that same day?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; that is correct.
Mr. Jenner. And you record that in your memorandum, do you not, on a previous page?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I do.
Mr. Jenner. The fact of the introduction?
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I do so.
Mr. Jenner. I think the Commission would be interested further in explaining your remark "I still do not know why or how, but Mr. and Mrs. Paine are somehow involved in this affair." What did you mean by that? That is on page 6.
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; I just wanted to verify that this was still under my date, original entry of December 6, 1963.
At the time I wrote the statement, "I still do not know why or how, but Mr. and Mrs. Paine are somehow involved in this affair." I meant by this statement that I had gathered that after our meeting of November 22, 1963, at the Dallas police station, to the date of December 6, 1963, that Mr. Paine and Mrs. Paine were separated, and that I had read approximately at this time—and I am not sure that I had read this particular thing in the newspaper prior to December 6, 1963—but I feel like I did—that in a Dallas paper it referred to an incident at a Grand Prairie Rifle Range where some people had identified Lee as being at this rifle range, and that on one occasion a man, and the description was given in the newspaper, had handed Lee Harvey Oswald a rifle over this fence where he was standing inside the rifle range. As I read this description in the newspaper, I reached the conclusion from that description that it was Mr. Paine.
Mr. Jenner. Any other basis that you now recall upon which you predicated the statement that, "Somehow Mr. and Mrs. Paine are involved in this affair."
Mr. Oswald. Yes, sir; if the newspaper I read at that particular time is dated after December 6, 1963, the statement that I just read a few minutes ago, "I still do not know why or how, but Mr. and Mrs. Paine are somehow involved in this affair"—I made that statement then based on my meeting Mr. and Mrs. Paine at the Dallas police station on Friday night, November 22, 1963.
Mr. Jenner. Now, would you please describe Mr. Paine as he appeared on that particular occasion—first, his physical appearance, and then follow with how he was dressed. Give his height, weight, color of eyes and hair, as you recall them.
Mr. Oswald. I recall Mr. Paine to be approximately 6 feet in height. I do not recall the color of his hair. He is of slender build. Perhaps I would establish his weight around 160 or 165 pounds. His facial appearance was quite drawn—and this is a conclusion on my part, because I had not met him before—he appeared to be quite drawn in the face.
His eyes, I would say, would have to me a hollow look.
Mr. Jenner. What color were his eyes?
Mr. Oswald. I do not know, sir.
Mr. Jenner. You don't presently recall?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I do not.
Mr. Jenner. You made no note of it at the time?
Mr. Oswald. No, sir; I did not.
Mr. Jenner. What was his complexion—ruddy, pale?
Mr. Oswald. I would say his complexion would be ruddy complected.
Mr. Jenner. Was he clean shaven?
Mr.
