Mr. Oswald was under oath before this Commission, and that being under oath before this Commission he was in no position, or that it would not be an appropriate time for any statement to be given to the press.
And yet in this article, Mr. Lewis has given some direct quotes, or what appear to be direct quotes, of Mr. Oswald's testimony before this Commission.
Mr. Dulles. I wonder if it would be agreeable to you, if we go off the record at this point.
Mr. McKenzie. If I may still be on the record for one more second, please, sir—I would like to further and say that some of the text of this article gives testimony in the same light, and nearly in the same manner in which Robert Oswald has testified.
Now, if there is a leak to the press, or if anyone on the Commission or its staff are giving articles to the press, then I want to know as soon as possible, because if that is so we will go down and have a press interview, and I just don't think it is fair to the witness, nor do I think it is fair to the Commission.
And if you feel that I am right in my statement here, then I would like to have this article inserted in the record.
Now, if you would like to go off the record, that is fine with me, sir.
Mr. Dulles. Just for a moment.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. Dulles. Back on the record.
Mr. McKenzie. Mr. Dulles, off the record we have discussed the New York Times article, and I have stated to you—the New York Times article referred to as the one by Anthony Lewis, of February 22, 1964.
Mr. Dulles. I think it is of February 21, but reported in the Times on February 22.
Mr. McKenzie. That is correct.
I have stated to you that at no time to my knowledge has Robert Oswald given any statements to the press as set forth in this article, particularly his testimony to the Commission.
And, further, that both Robert Oswald and his counsel have stated to the press that while Mr. Oswald was under oath to the Commission, and subject to recall by the Commission, that he would not issue any press statements, because I have likened it to a grand jury investigation, and I have stated this to the press.
And I did not deem it appropriate at any time for him to make any statements to the press of his testimony before this Commission.
And yet there are—I find in this article by Mr. Lewis, dateline February 21, certain excerpts from his testimony before the Commission—and it can come from only one place, and that is from someone on the Commission's staff.
Mr. Dulles. Well, I may wish to make an exception to that—having been in Washington a long time, and knowing that things have a way of leaking, and many ways of leaking.
Mr. McKenzie. Well, sir, I will state to you—maybe my statement is too strong.
But I will state to you, sir, that at no time has Mr. Oswald or myself made any statements giving testimony to the press which has previously been given to the Commission.
Mr. Dulles. I am very glad to hear that statement.
Mr. McKenzie. And, further——
Mr. Jenner. I have every confidence in that. As a matter of fact, I have been with both of you most of the time.
Mr. McKenzie. And, further, if it has been given to the press by someone other than the people in this room, and I feel confident it was not given to the press by anyone—because I have either been with you, Mr. Dulles, or Mr. Jenner. But I feel that the Commission should investigate this to see if there is a leak, and, if so, I feel that it is reprehensible.
Mr. Dulles. I will present your statement to the Chief Justice.
Do you wish to identify the statements to which you take exception?
Mr. McKenzie. I will identify it this way.
Let me just identify it this way: "His brother told the Commission that Lee seemed changed when he returned to the United States. He had lost a lot of hair, which Robert said was unusual for their family, and he appeared to be under a strain."
"Robert testified that the last time he saw Lee before the assassination was at Thanksgiving in 1962."
Now, I offer that, sir, for the record from the standpoint that that is testimony given to the Commission and quoted in this article.
There are other items or matters in the article which Mr. Lewis could have received from public records, or from newspaper morgues, or newspaper records. However, the two quotes that I have given from this article are direct testimony from the Commission, from the Commission's records.
Mr. Jenner. I think in fairness, Mr. McKenzie, they are with respect to subject matter. I don't think they are direct quotes of the witness' testimony.
Mr. McKenzie. But you will agree with me, won't you, Mr. Jenner, that they are in respect to subject matter, matters testified to before the Commission by Robert Oswald?
Mr. Jenner. The subject matter of the hair, yes. I recall specifically asking Mr. Oswald about that yesterday. We had not inquired of the witness about that prior to that time.
Mr. McKenzie. I might further add, sir, that I am familiar with the statements made to the press by you, Mr. Dulles.
Mr. Dulles. I think you heard both of them that I made yesterday before the morning, afternoon and evening sessions.
Mr. McKenzie. Yes, sir; I did. And I would be remiss if I did not add that I know that you—when you have made statements to the press, you have been most fair, both to the press, to the Commission, and also the witness.
And I am in full accord with the statements that have been made to the press by yourself, by Mr. Rankin, and by the Chief Justice.
I might also add, Mr. Dulles, if I may, sir, that the only reason I bring this up is that I do feel that Mr. Robert Oswald is under strict—the strictest of oaths to give his testimony only to the Commission, in the interests of finding out the truth, and that he has not given any statements to the press nor have I.
Mr. Dulles. On that latter point, I would say that I appreciate and respect the position that you have taken in this respect, that in the case of previous witnesses, the Commission itself has no authority to, as I understand it, and has not attempted to "muzzle" witnesses that have appeared before it as to what they themselves may say after the hearings.
The Chief Justice has enjoined them during the hearings not to discuss the proceedings.
Am I correct, Mr. Jenner?
Mr. Jenner. That is my understanding.
Mr. McKenzie. And that is exactly the position we are taking, sir. And that is exactly the position that we have taken, and will continue to take at all times while he is under oath to the Commission, and until such time as he is released from that oath.
Mr. Dulles. Well, I will see that your statement is brought specifically to the attention of the Chief Justice and Mr. Rankin.
Mr. McKenzie. Thank you, sir.
Mr.
